Hot Springs Village group provides background information for a proposed Emergency Ordinance in Saline County

On the evening of Monday, May 6, 2024, a group of Villagers* attended the Saline County Quorum Court Meeting in Benton to provide background information for a proposed Emergency Ordinance to establish a sub-fund for disaster relief. Passing this ordinance could allow Hot Springs Village to receive help from Saline County for tornado disaster relief in clearing road right-of-ways for life safety reasons. Saline County Quorum Court Justice of the Peace, District 13, Keith Keck presented the Emergency Ordinance. (See below HSV tornado clean-up efforts so far.)*

Having exhausted many other channels, GM Hale and others appealed to the Quorum Court for emergency assistance. Keck said the Villagers’ presentation was “informational as to what drives the [proposed] ordinance.”

Cheryl’s Disclaimer: What follows is a partial “close” transcript / report of the meeting. I was not familiar with most of the speakers, so I could not identify them, merely labeling them as “Quorum Court Members.” Also, there was background noise that made it more difficult to hear my recording. I have attempted to be as accurate for meaning as possible. Let’s begin.

Hot Springs Village POA Board Chair Joanie Corry started the conversation by sharing, “In 2023, taxes collected from the Hot Springs Village portion of Saline County in real property were $1,838,727. For personal property, for the same time period, the total was $286,677 for 2023. Total taxes collected from the Village were $2,125,404.

According to the 2021 HSV Economic Impact Study conducted by the University of Arkansas, Little Rock, HSV contains approximately 6.5% of the Saline County Population but contributes approximately 11% of the overall property and personal property taxes to Saline County. Click here to read the HSV Economic Impact Study.

GM Hale presents the facts to the Saline County Quorum Court

After thanking the Quorum Court for allowing Villagers time to speak, Hale said, “We’re telling you about the money we have here because the Village is a misunderstood place in many ways. I want to be able to help educate and share information with everyone, and I don’t mean that in a bad way. It is amazing how many people misunderstand who we are in both counties and the State of Arkansas.”

Hale stated, “The bottom line is, over the last ten years, just in taxes, we’ve paid $20 M from just the Saline County side [of the Village], which is the smaller portion of our entire village, compared to Garland County.”

The total estimated taxes paid to Saline County from Hot Springs Village in the past ten years are more than $20 M. These funds went to three Saline County Funds: County General Fund, County Roads, and County Library.

Hale said the Hot Springs Village citizens don’t use the county jails much. “I know that because I am running the HSV Police Department. We don’t come down and use your libraries a lot. We have our own, so we are not going in there, wearing the carpet out, and playing with everything. The only time we use the roads is when we are coming down to shop or the doctor, for the most part.”

“Most of our citizens stay inside the Village. When they do leave it is to shop or go to the doctor. We really are not putting the wear and tear on [Saline County].”

“You’ll see in 2008, this Quorum Court actually enacted an emergency ordinance 2008-54. It was an authorization to remove disaster-related debris from private roads. I am not sure what generated that, but we are a not-for-profit Corporation that is construed as a private corporation, a private community in some ways.”

“We do have private roads and we maintain close to 500 miles of roads. In 2011 we had a tornado hit Hot Springs Village. “Disaster-related funding was requested from FEMA, the State of Arkansas, and this County; No funding was provided.”

An ice storm in Hot Springs Village in 2012 was more damaging to the Village than the 2011 tornado. “Disaster-related funding requested from FEMA/Arkansas/Saline County covered over $1 M of debris clean-up and an additional $300 K for clean-up in Garland County. Saline County executed debris clean-up for $238 K for the county’s portion of the expense.”

“We have a historical pattern of the county supporting us during these types of events in the past.”

“I would like to bring up the amount of American Rescue Plan Act [ARPA] money in Saline County.” Saline County received $23.7 M from the federal government in ARPA money. The Saline County Quorum Court divided these funds three ways:

• Saline Regional Water Authority – $10 M was appropriated to the Saline Regional Water Authority. Hot Springs Village has its own water authority. We have our own public water source that services 9,800 homes/entities.
• Expansion of Saline County Detention Center – $8.3 M – “We do not tie up your jails.”
• Arkansas Wireless Internet Network – $5.4 M – Hot Springs Village will receive some benefit from this project. This money is allocated to the companies installing the service.”

“Some of you may be thinking, why would we help out a POA? Are we going to put ourselves in a bad position with other HOAs and POAs? I am just asking you, how many HOAs and POAs do you have in the county? I went and looked. I can’t find a lot. I can find them in Benton and Bryant, but I don’t find them out in the county, itself.”

“HSV is the 26th largest community in the State of Arkansas. It has over 16,500 residents who live there year-round. We are also ranked the 9th largest employer in Saline County. We do generate jobs.”

Hale said Hot Springs Village is different from other HOAs and POAs. “Do we look like an HOA or POA? We look like a city. We operate as a city. We have our own fire, police, ambulance, water department, street department and we have to meet all state and federal guidelines to be able to operate these. This doesn’t sound like any of the HOAs I’ve ever lived in around the United States. Sounds more like a city.”

“It is unfortunate that we are not tagged that way. That is not your fault, right now. It is not your problem. We have to work with our legislators to get to that point to where we need to be.”

“What we are asking is, is for support. We want to be able to get the money we need to care for our community.

Hale said, “This is a definition from the U.S. EPA of what a public water system truly is. Everybody wants to classify the Village as a private water system. It is a public [water system].” The definition of a public water system is, it “provides for human consumption through pipes or other constructed conveyances to at least 15 service connections or serves an average of at least 25 people for at least 60 days a year.”

Hale emphasized, “Check, check, and check for the Village. We’ve beat that all over. That is the U.S. Government’s definition. it is also the State of Arkansas’s definition.”

“We are asking for help with the clean-up of road-right-of way [easements] where our water and sewer lines are covered up from all the debris. That is what we are looking at. I am not looking for you to help clean up all the other areas. It is the easement areas that we’ve identified through the bidding process and fire mitigation in areas that butt up against the Ouachita National Forest.”

“We are working with the Arkansas State Forestry. We had them in there today [Monday, May 6, 2024]. Representative McGrew is helping with that. We’ve also talked to Congressman Westerman, who is a Jessieville/Fountain Lake resident. But we need some help from the county.”

Hale said that because we are not receiving FEMA money, the companies helping with the tornado debris clean-up charge us rates as individuals. It is estimated that the Saline County clean-up will cost $1.99 M. There are 11.8 miles of roadway to clean and repair and an estimated 150,000 to 170,000 total cubic yards of debris.

We have roughly $7.75 M identified and turned in ADEM.” This number is based on estimates from the vendors used for the clean-up. These numbers were not estimated by the POA.

“With that being the case, we took the lowest bids. If this disaster were declared by FEMA, the cost would be $9.60 per cubic yard. Because we did not have FEMA backing, we are being charged $4.62 per cubic yard. This is a 52% savings because we were aggressive and went after it. We did not sit back and wait. I did not have any choice. I had to take care of the residents by getting these utility lines cleared.”

The clean-up total is $1.1 M, so far.

Hale said, “We are looking for half a million [dollars in assistance]. We pay a lot of money in. We are not here to guilt you into it or anything like that. What we are looking for is that when we do get in trouble, please assist us when we need it. We have been there before. We have a great relationship with this county. We are just asking for some help right now when we need it the most. I thank you for your time.”

Discussion and Questions with Quorum Court Members

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “I saw Garland County had a lot more debris. Have y’all asked or talked to Garland County?”

Hale: “Yes, we have. We’ve already submitted our letters to Judge Mahoney and I just saw Judge Mahoney last week on Friday at an event and let him know I am hoping for a response from the court.”

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “Do you have an ordinance over there [Garland County] ready to go or y’all have a number what you are asking them for?”

Hale: “We do. We want to work with them on what we will ask for. The number we are looking for is 35%. This number was derived from the fact that if FEMA were involved, they would pay out 65%. We are still trying to get FEMA to activate. The number that I am asking for – $.5 M is 25% of the estimate for the Saline County side. It is not the 35%. I wanted to be as reasonable as I could. On the other side of the fence, with Garland County, it will probably be close to $1.4 M that we will request, to be in a similar percentage that we are asking for in Saline County.”

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “Do you know how much money Saline County paid for debris removal back in the 2012 ice storm?”

Hale: “$238,000.”

Quorum Court Member (Josh Curtis): “Where did you get that number?”

Keck: “We got that number out of the archives. There was deep digging.”

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “That was just County General, not FEMA?”

Keck: “The overall clean-up was over $1 M on the Saline County side.”

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “Was that money hard dollars or was that [indecipherable word] match?” Because you can match 25% of FEMA with soft dollars. So on our road department work, we can use those hours for a soft match with FEMA.”

Keck: “I think those were hard dollars because there was a contract to come in. There were set contractors.”

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “I have some numbers that are a lot lower than that …but it dealt with the whole county. I couldn’t break it down.”

Keck: “That was back when it was 75/25 match. FEMA picked up the big bill. The thing is, during all this, the Village POA never saw that money. It never came to the POA. That was all contracted for by the dounty. It doesn’t go to the POA. It stayed with the county. I know that because I was sitting as the POA Board President then.

Keck said any assistance from Saline County would be contracted for by Judge Matt Brumley.

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “You said one thing that caught my attention. You said you are working with legislators to change y’all’s organization so that you can receive money. What is your plan there?

Hale: “We don’t have one yet, Josh. We are in the very infant phase right now. But this has brought attention to the issue of many of our elected officials that when they start really digging into it, everybody is like, ‘Well, we’d love to help you, but we can’t.’ That is really unfair in a lot of ways. But we also are going to ask the question, ‘Let’s take a look at the code of the state, take a look at the constitution and start showing that?’ We just want to ask, because the big key piece in the future is, I can’t change what recently happened. One thing, Josh, also, this storm that hit was three times worse than previous ones. But this particular situation here, we’re working on how do we get some of our tax money back? Is that sales tax on the municipality purchases the Village makes? There has to be a way that we get some of that money back in some way, shape, or form to help soften some of these blows. Just like any other community, we have to take care of everything that you folks do. I’ve got a fire department that I have to pay. I have fire trucks that I have to buy. I’ve got a full police force. These are all paid for by the community that we live in.”

“And we do serve Saline and Garland County outside the fenceline. We don’t just drive up to Highway 5 and say, ‘Nah, too bad!’ If the Sheriff’s Department needs assistance, which they just did two nights ago, we go out and back them up. Why? it’s the right thing to do. We don’t operate in that mindset when we look at it from a municipality point of view. A lot of times, I have to remind people – take away the golf courses and the lakes. It looks like any other city. That is really my whole point. If it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck, it is a duck.”

Hale said that changing state law is another story for another time. “We are pushing on that. It doesn’t change this particular event or what I need for now. It is not different than Arkansas Forestry, who told me, ‘Hey, in 2025, they are going to have up to $3 M fund for rural disaster areas. You can apply the next time you get hit.'”

Hale said, ‘Thank you. I appreciate that and I will get the form. But what about now?’

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis: You mentioned the Forestry Commission and the Forestry Department.

Hale: “We are trying to get some of their workers to come in and help. As I stated, I cannot sit back and wait. We are approaching two months on this situation. If I want to sit back and say, ‘I’ll wait for all my state, county, and federal officials to come in and help out, we would be so far behind. We had to go out and actively recruit loggers because we only have sixty days on those logs after they hit the ground, or the mills will not take them. So we gave away a ton of timber. We did everything. I’ve got nine different loggers. We didn’t sit back and wait. We went and hired our own people. We got them in on the areas to specifically serve our community and make sure we provided basic help and human services, which was the right thing to do.”

“I am told some communities just sit back. We didn’t have that option. The average age in the Village is 67 years of age. I have a responsibility to the community that we have to make sure we can get units in there – ambulances and fire. I still have over 200 fire hydrants that we are still cutting out. There are over 1,738 fire hydrants in the Village. My concern is that we are able to take care of the community. And it is going from cleaning it up – we still have a lot to haul away – to getting into fire mitigation. That is where the Arkansas Forestry is coming in to help us out with advice and any help they can give. I told them, ‘I’ve got to go to the Quorum Court tonight and get on bended knee and see if I can get some of my [tax] money back to help out. And I say ‘my money’ because the community gave it.”

“The Village provides $400 M annually to the State of Arkansas. That isn’t our number. That is the University of Arkansas’s number. That doesn’t really mean a whole lot here tonight, but that is a huge impact. In the next three years, the Village will have had a half-billion dollar impact on the state.”

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “So what is your backup plan, if you cannot get any dollars from each of the counties?”

Hale joked, “I am having a chainsaw day…”

“We will not be victims here. I can’t sit back and do that. I don’t have a backup plan, Josh, except to keep burning through my reserves and putting my community in a very awkward position financially if we don’t get the support. That is my backup plan – because I can’t sit back and just say, ‘Oh well.’ I have a fire mitigation issue that is right next to the National Forest, not to mention Jessieville, Fountain Lake, and the schools and everything else. We have a responsibility that unfortunately Mother Nature didn’t give me an opportunity to choose whether I wanted to deal with her or not.”

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “Any questions (from the other Quorum Court Members)?”

Quorum Court Member: Can we help you in any way with just services?

Hale: “Yes. I need big dump trucks. I need big bulldozers. I need grappling machines. But I need 20, 30 at a time. That is what I am working with the State Highway Commission on right now. But, I’ve already spent all my money on two months clean-up. I need some of that back, please. I’ll take that help. I’ll take whatever help you guys got as a county.”

“Let me say this, this county right here was on the scene that night. That man right there was with me for what, 24 hours – it seemed like. And we had [Arkansas State Representative] Richard [McGrew] fixing our generator. This county was there. They showed us the way and the path and played quarterback for us with the OEM Department. I could not have gotten to where I was today without this group. Garland County was there. This group was the one we sat in the truck with, that followed every doggone move. I can’t thank y’all enough, but I still need help.” Click here to see the list of entities and individuals that responded the first day of the tornado.

Quorum Court Member: “It is my understanding correctly, $500,000 is a reimbursement for…”

Keck: “No. It is not a reimbursement because you can’t reimburse.”

Hale: “I still have clean-up.”

Keck: “There is still clean-up. If you go through the areas now, it looks like a war zone. On the Saline County side, it is bad. It is terrible. There are piles and piles of debris because they moved it off of the roads so people could get in and out and public safety could get in and out. We know there are fire hydrants in the 10—to 15-foot-high piles of trees and debris. That is what they are trying to clean up.”

Keck: “The $500,000 would be moved to the disaster fund and then procurement would be done by the Judge [Matt Brumley] and the road department to hire those contractors to continue on in cleanup.”

Keck: “We are expending the funds, but expending them very quickly.”

Keck: “Again, the precedent was set back in the ice storm and how we could crack this. Everyone always said we couldn’t do this in a private community. It was legally done…That is the gist of why the emergency ordinance is written that way. It just creates the funds.”

Quorum Court Member: “Is that general funds or road funds? Do you…?”

Keck: “I don’t know where Lanny took that out of.”

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “Suppose the numbers are right. This is coming out of the CARES ACT that is sitting there drawing really good interest and that is basically County General Fund, not undedicated revenue.”

Quorum Court Member: “Do we already have all the CARES funding appropriated?”

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “No. We have all the American Rescue Funds appropriated, but this is the CARES money that has no strings attached…”

Quorum Court Member: “Currently are there any road access issues left? Do we still have any roads blocked?”

Hale: “It would be irresponsible of me…”

Quorum Court Member: “This is all…”

Hale: “Easement and fire mitigation, CJ.”

Quorum Court Member: “You are saying ‘easement,’ but is any of this on privately-owned property, as far as clean-up?”

Hale: “No. In the areas that we are hitting, there is going to be some fire mitigation that is going to be on private property. Our focus is, we have ten-foot easements on both sides of the roads where our water and sewer lines are. Those are the easements I am referring to that we need to clear so that we can service those. There are piles of debris sitting on the easements from when we cleared the road. We had to literally carve our way in to get the trucks in. That is the biggest piece we need picked up. Common property – there are other areas, especially ones that butt up next to the Ouachita National Forest…”

Quorum Court Member: “I am just curious. Who usually takes care of those right-of-ways in Hot Springs Village?”

Hale: “We do.”

Quorum Court Member: “You have your own…?”

Hale: “I have my own Street Department, my own Water Department, my own Sign Department. We take care of all of that – always have.”

Quorum Court Member: “I have another question that I wasn’t on the Quorum Court at this time, but when the tornado went through, the Quorum Court put up money for that? And one more thing, why is FEMA not…?”

Hale: “Because we have to get ADEM to engage. The state has to engage FEMA. We are still chatting with ADEM.”

Keck: “The other issue with FEMA is the dollar figures of FEMA keep going up. This is a major disaster for Hot Springs Village in that portion of Saline and Garland Counties, but the tornado lifted and went away. It didn’t come back down. So the FEMA number used to be lower, is now really high, because FEMA is spending money left and right, too.” [The FEMA threshold has been raised.]

Hale: “We think ADEM is saying that, but they are coming back out. The Director of ADEM toured the community.”

Quorum Court Member: “If I am looking at the slides right, if FEMA gets involved, the price doubles.”

Hale: “We have all heard the stories of a $400 or $500 hammer. We are not going to kid ourselves. None of us operate in that mindset. This is what the contractors told us.” If there is a FEMA contract, the price is much higher.

Quorum Court Member: “Even if we don’t meet the FEMA threshold, you’re still waiting on an answer from ADEM for state funding? Right?

Hale: “Yes.”

Quorum Court Member: “What is the anticipated timeline on hearing back from them on that decision?”

Hale: “We don’t know, yet, CJ. Representative Richard McGrew was with me today and ADEM and Senator Matt McKee are engaged with Sarah [Huckabee- Sanders] trying to set up a one-on-one meeting with Sarah.”

Quorum Court Member: “Governor Sanders?”

Hale: “Yes, sir. Governor Sanders. Excuse me.”

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “Any other questions?”

Quorum Court Member: “One thing I would think about…I got to thinking about Kirk Lake. Hopefully, we never have a tornado go through there. A couple of years ago, we had one that hit that trailer park. You know where I am talking about? Right outside… But if we did have a tornado go through Kirk Lake, is that considered a POA now? I know it is a gated community.”

Quorum Court Member: “It is a POA, but the city has adopted those roads.”

Quorum Court Member: “Hot Springs Village is it’s own community, as far as taking care of itself.”

Quorum Court Member: “Other than in disasters.”

Quorum Court Member: “This ordinance, I still think that POA could apply for funds. So we are setting a precedent.”

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “What about the last ordinance they had in 2012? How did that work?”

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “From my understanding, I think that ordinance goes into effect under federally declared disasters.”

Keck: “The original 2008 one was the original ordinance [undecipherable due to noise]”

Quorum Court Member: “Was that for a federally-declared disaster?”

Keck: “It just said, ‘disaster.'”

Quorum Court Member: “Why are we having to write another ordinance, if we already have one?”

Keck: “Because this is an appropriations ordinance to move money into a fund so that the Hot Springs Village POA could apply for the Judge to procure some services. This ordinance is moving money out of the CARES ACT to a Disaster line, which we don’t have right now. It is actually creating a Disaster Fund so that they can apply for money… The money doesn’t go to the POA. This is no different from when we move money around from line items in the Sheriff’s Department and things like that. We are moving General Accounting money around to have some funds they can apply for.”

Quorum Court Member: “This ordinance, all it is going to do is put the responsibility on the judge to find people to go in and clean-up. He’s going to pay for it. This is the money that is going to do it.”

Keck: “This would be for him and I am sure Hot Springs Village would send the contractors his way so they could bid and then he could sign the procurement documents. That is a little bit different from what the POA does.”

Quorum Court Member: “Is there anything we can help with besides giving $500,000?” Can the Road Department help? Can they work on the easements or…?

Saline County Judge Matt Brumley: From what I understand, the threshold is $6.5 M for FEMA… I think there is, as you all have experienced, a big difference between tornados versus a freeze disaster, which hits the entire state and triggers the threshold pretty quickly. Hot Springs Village, I want to double down on what General Manager Hale said, it is rough out there. They handled it extremely well. The Saline County Sheriff’s Office – I actually hitched a ride that night with the Sheriff. Saline County Road Department came out there to clean roadways. My understanding was at that time, and when I am saying this, I am putting this on [decipherable], my understanding was when Saline County Road Department left, their services at that point in time were no longer needed but if they were needed, to please let us know.”

Judge Brumley said he has had conversations with the Forestry people to see if they can help. “They said they can grind it and cut it, but can’t move it, which leaves you all with the same materials in potentially the same places; It is just in a different form.”

“Fire hydrants, where they are located as far as the easements and how all that works, I don’t know. I am not really sure. I have been out there multiple times and I see exactly what you are talking about.”

“Number one – I am glad to hear the roads aren’t blocked. I thought as of May 2, we still had some blocked roads and I was concerned about that.”

Hale: “No. I am sorry Judge, but that is kind of hard. ADEM came out six weeks after the event. This is a little bit of a rub with some of the agencies that come out – anyone that comes after the fact – you were there – how can someone make an estimation at six weeks after the fact? Those are some of the concerns that we have that when I am asking for monetary help.” I have an uphill battle with people that want us to reconstruct the crime scene when we have already gone in to clean things up.

Saline County Judge Matt Brumley: “Let me speak specifically to the half a million dollars – where my concerns lie and where I see the ordinance written. The way I see the ordinance written is it is not an exclusive half a million dollars for Hot Springs Village. Yet, it could be applied for by the community that was hit.”

Judge Brumley said they must be good stewards of the money and that a disaster could strike elsewhere in the county. “Tonight, I haven’t looked lately, but we are at a high risk for a traumatic event. So, when I say I am concerned, please don’t confuse that with my complete [indecipherable]. Here is my concern, that say there is $500,000 set aside for disaster and then people from Saline County come with their request for us to procure for their disaster relief. In 2011 [Note from Cheryl: I think he meant 2012], FEMA was triggered and there was a MOU [Memorandum of Understanding] in place that said, ‘We will procure on behalf of Hot Springs Village.’ We will receive those dollars and then as the Chairman said, ‘We will match those with either a hard, soft, or a mixture of both. The very essence of the challenge is, as I see it, is being able to do what is called a precedent. Maybe it is, but the circumstances – the other entities [FEMA] are not putting dollars in for a Memorandum of Understanding for us to say that we will take part in. The burden is going to be strictly on Hot Springs Village and Saline County. A half a million dollars.” [Judge Brumley is saying that this situation is different than 2012 because FEMA has not come through with help.]

“We will have another traumatic event in Saline County. It is going to happen. If by ordinance, we are setting something up, expect for it to happen again. Where can we possibly help? I can’t answer that well today. We don’t have 20 trucks. I certainly can’t speak for Garland County. But I would like the opportunity to assess and see what in-house resources we might be able to help with and I may come back and say, ‘It is like taking a bucket out of the Arkansas River, what we can offer you.’ But I would like the opportunity for our Superintendent to go out and look and use the manpower that we have…Something may be better than nothing. So I would like the opportunity to help in that manner, if you all would be agreeable to it.”

“The ordinance in 2000 said that in a declared disaster, by Governor or County Judge, that we may go and clear debris from roadways or waterways. Then a contract was issued. It said, ‘While on the roadway, we could reach immediately right or left, and clear debris in those areas. I don’t know if the defiinition of right-of-way applies in a private…I am imagining that is why that language was used. That is the language that was used. So you know, 72 hours in…we can do everything. Then we have a decision to make. Do we declare a disaster? I declared a disaster so that we would be able to help, which then triggers the ability for that afore-mentioned ordinance to take place.”

Quorum Court Member: “I have one more question for the Judge. Judge, do we have any estimate on how many hard or soft funds that we have expended on the project of clean-up in the Village, already?”

Saline County Judge Matt Brumley: “I can’t hit that on the head. But I would say between the Sheriff’s Office, the Road Department, we have spent somewhere between $30,000 and $45,000.

Quorum Court Member: “I think the first few days we spent over $12,000.”

Other Comments

Harv Shelton: Shelton said he has been a Saline County resident for 18 years and also has 41 years of service in the Air Force. “We feel very fortunate to be residents of this county. I am here primarily because I was on the Property Owners’ Association Board of Directors in 2011 and 2012. I served with Keith Keck when we experienced our last tornado and when we had that ice storm.”

“The support we got from Saline County in both of those instances was absolutely critical to our recovery. We couldn’t have done it without your help.”

“I am back here tonight because compared to those two disasters, our latest tornado is a much greater challenge and the need is much greater.”

“We appreciate the help we’ve gotten so far, but we would sure like to get more assistance from the county. Thank you.”

Steve Lux: “I am a resident of Saline County and have lived in the Village for over 12 years. I also am hopeful that the County can do some things to help us in this activity.” Lux said he was concerned with the fire risk. “My concern is if have a bunch of pile of debris, that we are going to have some real issues with fire. The concern for me, and I understand the county is in a difficult position because we don’t have exact monies set aside for emergencies like this. We don’t have approval yet for the state to kick in money, but it is difficult, I am sure for the community. It could be a municipality with just a little bit of change, it could be Hot Springs Village Community or City. We do need help. We are working hard to get help and we appreciate anything the county can do.”

James (Jim) Zahnd: “I sat on this court for six years. When I see that kind of smile on the Chairman’s face, it really starts to worry me. (laughter). It is good to be back here and it was good to serve with you. Serving is what I want to talk briefly about. The group gave a lot of information about the taxes we pay. That is a big contribution to the county. But also, a big contribution to the county is what the people there (in the Village) do for the county. For a couple of decades now, people have given of their time to county projects. The Technical Education Center is a good example.” Zahnd said they have worked hard for that and understood the benefit for the entire county. That is the other thing besides the tax money that the Village gives to you.” Without the leadership and votes, of the people of Hot Springs Village…the Technical Eduation Center probably would not have happened. “We worked hard on that one.”

“We are here now, proposing – we need your help – just like you needed our help then.”

Quorum Court Member: “I think all of us here want to do the right thing. My only concern on this is, as the judge said, I am a weather watcher. I grew up with a mother hysterically scared of storms. So I keep up with the weather and we do have a severe risk tonight. Long range F4 – F5 tornadoes, mainly here in Arkansas. My concern is, if we are in tornado season, just trying to think ahead, and something like this does happen in Saline County, that is my only concern. I want to do the right thing. I know what they are dealing with out there, but that is the thing that is on my mind. We are setting a precedent. I am not saying I am against it, I am just saying…You know what I am saying.”

Keck: “Tag onto that…This is maybe something we should have done years ago, is set aside money for disasters. We’ve never done that in the county. We’ve never had a line item. Because we know it is coming again and how do we start budgeting to take care of our citizens out there. Hot Springs Village is an example, but, I would say we need to think even more about this. This is the starting point. How do we build that into the budget to deal with something like this?”

Keck said he sees this as a start.

Quorum Court Member: “Are there a lot of counties in Arkansas that have an ordinance like this?”

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): “There are not many counties that have a million dollars sitting in the bank, so we are fortunate that we do have some reserves.”

Saline County Judge Matt Brumley: “I promise, I am looking at every angle of this. This county actually did have a disaster line item. Then insurance rates went up and they had to use the money out of the disaster line item and it has never been replaced since then.” Judge Brumley said he agrees with Keck as far as thinking about have a disaster line item moving forward.

Quorum Court Chairman (Josh Curtis): Curtis feels the Quorum Court should give Judge Brumley time to evaluate the situation.

Quorum Court Member: “My feeling is, I want to be able to help, but I want to know what we have to help with and what kind of help they need before we just indiscrimately throw out a half a million dollars.”

Quorum Court Member: “It will be much more likely to pass if we have some time to consider all the factors…We have a cushion, but it is not very thick. This certainly deserves a lot of consideration.”

The Quorum Court vote

“Since it was a voice vote, no by-name vote was recorded. Nine votes were needed to proceed, and at most, there were six or seven.,” stated Quorum Court Justice of the Peace District 13 Keith Keck.

In a nutshell

Board Vice Chair Larry Siener explained to the Public Services Committee what happened at the May 6, 2024, Saline County Quorum Court Courty Meeting.

Board Vice Chair Larry Siener explains past history of disaster emergency fund

Board Vice Chair Larry Siener said, “If you go back a few years, Saline County used to have a disaster emergency fund to help communities in Saline County in case of a disaster. That fund disappeared some years ago due to a significant spike in insurance rates for county employees. The money was diverted to take care of that. So that [emergency fund] hasn’t been in place for quite some time. “

Biggest challenge

Siener stated, “The biggest challenge we are having with disaster recovery at the local and state level is we are swimming upstream against the state constitution. We are a not-for-profit corporation. That is how we are registered in the State of Arkansas. The Arkansas Constitution – Article 12 – basically prohibits the state government and the local governments in Arkansas from absorbing costs from private corporations EXCEPT under certain conditions. Interestingly enough, help putting down an insurrection is one of the conditions. Remember this thing was created in the 1860s, right after the Civil War so that was probably a little more appropriate then than recently.”

“There is a condition there that says in the ‘event of Public Welfare.’ The problem is that no real definition of what ‘Public Welfare’ means exists. It is pretty clear that the envisioned model of something like ‘Public Welfare’ would be, for example, if you had a legacy bauxite mine up in the hills that was operating for 50 years. That bauxite mine shut down 20 years ago, and the company that ran the mine is long gone. Something happens, and there is a rupture in one of their tailings ponds, and all of a sudden, you have mine tailings floating into your water system. That would be a case where the state would potentially step in and take on that responsibility because of the associated public safety hazards.”

Siener said this leaves Arkansas judges and leaders in a “quandry” because the statement “Public Welfare” is up to interpretation. “

Siener said the argument is that the road-right-of-way tornado recovery efforts are for “Public Welfare.” “Being able to clear the right-of-ways so that fire hydrants are properly uncovered and damaged water and sewer lines are properly uncovered and repaired, in our opinion is a “Public Welfare” item.”

Additionally, Siener said the State Department of Forestry is concerned about all the fallen trees on the common property. Essentially, their fear is that if we get a really dry summer or fall and that lights up, there is a whole lot of fuel that could create one heck of a bonfire. If we have a forest fire that runs up one of these hillsides, the people whose houses it approaches will consider that a “Public Welfare” concern.”

Siener said they are taking the “Public Welfare” issue to the officials, but they are struggling with that because there isn’t a lot of clarity in the law. “It is a rather generic term and it really becomes a function of whether or not the county judges or heads of various state agencies like Arkansas Department of Emergency Management [ADEM] and other groups feel comfortable with making that decision.”

Siener stated, “There will always be a group of people who do not like the decisions being made.”

“Our challenge as a private enterprise in Arkansas is just exactly that.”

In addition, as a private community, we provide all of our own services, such as roads, fire, police, water, sewer, and so much more, with funds collected in assessments, etc. Villagers pay property tax and personal property tax, the same as all other state residents, but unlike other cities, none of those funds come back to the Village.

Siener continued, “Last Monday night, the [Saline County] Quorum Court Finance Committee was asked to consider allocating some money that came to Saline County from CARES ACT funding at the federal level to reestablish that fund. As we knew that was coming, we went to the Finance Meeting and presented the impacts and implications from the tornado effects here in the Village.”

“Our best available estimate right now for clean-up on the Saline County side is just under $2 M.”

“Long story short, the Quorum Court elected not to put that fund in place. We were a little bit disappointed that happened. To my mind, it really was a two-step process. The first part – they needed to decide whether or not they wanted to re-create that fund and then, assuming that they did – we would have been appealing to Judge [Matt] Brumley in Saline County for the opportunity to utilize some of that money.”

*What are the tornado clean-up efforts so far?

Part one HSV tornado clean-up efforts

Initially, the first part of the tornado clean-up effort was to clear the roads to allow access for emergency equipment and egress and ingress to homes. The Village was blessed to receive outside emergency assistance for this daunting task.

Part two HSV tornado clean-up efforts

The second part of the clean-up effort is clearing the road right-of-ways. Utilities such as water mains, sewer lines, and fire hydrants are located on the right-of-ways, and these critical areas must be cleared in case workers need access for repairs or maintenance.

The Village has hired outside logging and clean-up crews to assist with this, as it takes very skilled crews and equipment to remove the fallen trees. In many cases, the trees lay in a twisted mess under pressure from the weight of other trees. it is a dangerous job, with many of the trees being widow-makers.

The loggers are cutting and hauling to the mills as many trees as they can, as there is a 60 to 90-day window before the timber is deemed too dry to be sold to the mills.

Dry timber is very hard on the saw blades. We are receiving a small amount of money for the trees taken to the mills. Once we are past the 60 to 90-day window, the timber will no longer be sellable and at that point, cutting and removing the trees will cost us, instead of bringing us a small profit. So, as you can imagine the effort has been to work as quickly as is safely possible.

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Report by Cheryl Dowden

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